- Strict subset of go might be confusing to an agent actually (trying to use unavailable go features)
- So -> c11 source to source compile loop might be confusing to agent: if So compiles to c11 does it guarantee c11 program compiles. If runtime exception (segfault etc), is it going to be easy for agent to map that back to original So code?
Is doing something for yourself really working for free? That's an interesting take. But I can understand why you don't want this for yourself, so enjoy the page in all its splendour as it is already!
CSS is explicitly designed for you to apply your own user stylesheet. That is exactly what it envisions you doing. If you don't like web technologies you might want to question what you are doing on the web. However, the web also encourages sharing, so no, theoretically once one user has created a user stylesheet they would share it with others so there would be no need for everyone to create their own, unless they had alternative tastes.
I mean, if it really bothers you you could fairly trivially apply picocss or whatever to it using a user stylesheet. That is so little effort that calling it working for free would be disingenuous to say the least.
For people in the future who want to apply the centered viewport classless version of Pico CSS, just apply the following in Firefox's Style Editor (F12 to open DevTools, then click on Style Editor; click on the + sign to add a new style):
Browser vendors have really dropped the ball in supporting CSS, which is no doubt how we get comments like the above. Firefox is likely the least-worst offender, but as you point out still needlessly complicated for what CSS considers to be a foundational feature.
A closer analogy is going to a gas station where a microwave is offered to heat up any food you purchased. If you don't want to heat up the food, cool. If you expect the food to come hot you're in the wrong place.
Except in this case it's a gas station that only exists for the benefit of its owners and there isn't any food for sale. The owners have graciously said you could still use the microwave if you'd like, though.
> Consumers cannot possibly understand all potential ways in which they can be screwed over
In a democracy, consumers and the government are the exact same thing. Since they ostensibly do not understand all of the potential ways in which they can be screwed over, how is calling themselves government going to magically change that? Maybe you are imagining a dictatorship instead, where the government is only a subset of all consumers, but even then the dictators are still just feeble consumers themselves remaining within the subset of all consumers. Being a dictator doesn't make you omniscient; still only human like all the others.
Government exists to clean up the outliers who are not behaving in line with the wishes of the consumers, but that cleanup can only occur when their undesirable behaviour is out there for all to plainly see. You cannot enforce what you don't recognize.
> consumers will have to choose between e.g privacy violation or environmental destruction, or privacy violation of some degree vs another degree.
Temporarily, perhaps, but in a functioning market one of those consumers feeling underserved will rise up to offer what's missing, eventually satisfying consumers again. However, ironically, consumers often consider that undesirable behaviour and use government to block that rising from occurring. For some reason consumers prefer to protect the market incumbents even when they claim to not like what the incumbents are doing.
> In a democracy, consumers and the government are the exact same thing.
This is a straw man. Consumers are represented by representatives who should have their interests in mind, e.g the consumer votes for someone who in turn votes for outcomes. This means that there can absolutely be a difference in knowledge between the government and its citizens, and so no, they are not the exact same thing. One group is trying to do their job of being a citizen, while the other group should be doing their job of representing the interests of the citizens that voted on them in whatever is relevant. One job clearly should not involve making sure your privacy isn't constantly and covertly violated by foreign nationals, and one job clearly should. Which is which is an exercise for the reader.
> Consumers are represented by representatives who should have their interests in mind
Exactly. Representatives are merely messengers, so they can only represent the consumers when sharing the message of the consumers to the extent that the consumers have already recognized. Furthermore, representatives are only consumers themselves, so even if you imagine them not as representatives but dictators who step up and act for the people based on how they believe the people want to be overseen rather than from working with citizens they still have all the same blind spots.
> Great! Where can I find me one of those?
Where consumers don't like protecting the market incumbents. But, make no mistake, consumers love nothing more than protecting market incumbents. It gives them something to complain about when idly chatting with each other. Great? Something tells me you wouldn't find it great at all.
No, that is not how representation works. The representative represents, i.e they act in the absence of the citizen. They are not the human equivalent of an email broker.
> representatives are only consumers themselves
No, they are informed experts, or have informed experts at their disposal, to deeply understand the subject matter at hand so they can weigh it against the broad wishes of whom they represent. Furthermore, they have the time and responsibility to use their knowledge wisely.
> but dictators who step up and act for the people
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up dictators. Dictators don't step up and act for the people, that's what representatives do in a democracy. Are you from the US by chance? In that case I can understand why this concept is new.
> consumers love nothing more than protecting market incumbents
This is like saying: consumers sure did love dying from polio before the vaccine was invented.
Not really. No sign of a phone. Just a computer — same as what all other servers run on.
"My server runs on a computer with a form factor that is atypical for server workloads" gets a little closer to the heart of the article, but even then it seems the real meat of it is about Android, not the hardware (although that is mentioned too).
> If they mean turning a well-specified problem into runnable code, they’re increasingly right.
Has coding ever meant anything else? This is just semantics, but I don't think a product person talking to customers to find out what they need has ever considered their work to be coding, even if the fruits of their discovery eventually ends up as code.
> Code was always the medium
Exactly. If you discovered that what the customer really needed was a wooden cabinet you'd build that instead. You wouldn't give them code and expect it to hold their belongings. Code has never entered the picture until you have something that is well-specified.
> The amount of non-determinism in compiler and LLM output is so vast that even comparing them is silly.
What is that supposed to mean? Yes, LLMs are often considered to be non-deterministic because, in practice, they rely on systems with unstable floating point rounding. Likewise, compilers are often considered non-deterministic because, in practice, they often rely on systems with unstable thread execution order. Of course, those are both just implementation details. You can, albeit at the cost of things like performance, remove the hidden inputs. Computers are fundamentally deterministic! Anything that runs on computers must also be deterministic.
If you were to run a compiler or LLM on a Turing machine, they would both be 100% perfectly deterministic. We only see them as being non-deterministic because, in the real world, we run them on hardware that plays tricks with computation by introducing inputs via hidden side channels. But, again, those are implementation details. Compilers and LLMs are not defined by any particular implementation.
Proponents of what? Growing the pie isn't going to convince anyone who has a small slice of anything. Maybe you've never seen a pie before, but no matter how much it grows by the angle of your slice remains the same. People don't care about how much absolute wealth they have. If they did they'd all be happy as even the peasants today are richer than the kings of yore. In reality, people are only concerned about having a smaller share of the total wealth than someone else. Those kings of yore, despite having less wealth, are still considered to have been better off as they held the large share of the pie.
No, cool tech does not make up for the ruinous cost of health care, housing, and education vs median wages. Maslow's Hierarchy still exists. A system that fails to deliver food and shelter for a reasonable number of worked hours at a reasonable and available job is still a failure no matter how cool the Big Screen TVs are.
> A system that fails to deliver food and shelter for a reasonable number of worked hours at a reasonable and available job is still a failure
If other jobs are not fruitful enough to provide food and shelter then the worker can simply go direct to producing food and shelter themselves. That baseline is always available.
At least it is as long as you have land. That is where relative wealth inequality can quickly come to bite you. That is why nobody gives a shit about the pie growing. They only care about the pie having equally divided slices.
These silly catchphrases you keep coming up with do nothing to change reality.
The last time a programmer wasn't a manager was when they were handed a piece of paper with toggle combinations and their job was to flip the toggle switches as detailed. AI doesn't seem to have much applicability in any other profession, other than maybe graphic arts, but the same holds true there. Artists are also always managers.
So, what is this magical not-a-manager but also at risk of AI taking it away career? Are you sure it actually exists?
That's a weird way to put it. Yeah, everyone does a level of management for their own time and work projects. Still, the bulk of the work is in the details. Programmers talked a lot more about data structures and algorithms instead of keeping the LLM on track or sandboxed. How is it not different? We can play semantics on what it means to be a manager but the jobs as they were are going away
The bulk of the work is in describing the details of what you want to see happen to another entity, which is what managers do. Someone else, or something else (like a compiler), will carry out the actual work to see your idea become a reality. Are you under the impression that managers don't do anything or something?
> We can play semantics on what it means to be a manager but the jobs as they were are going away
Are they? It is becoming easier to pass a lot more information off to the worker bees, so conceivably you should be able to do more management now, but the general act of describing what you want to the worker bees to do and seeing them carry out the task is no different. The telephone also increased the capacity of a manager being able to relay information, so while there is still evolution happening, what we're seeing in increasing the information density isn't unprecedented.
And, sure, maybe that will go away eventually. It is conceivable that AI can become the manager too, going off and coming up with its own ideas, plans, and delegating it all without any human intervention. But at that point you won't be a manager. Manager would be the very job on the chopping block.
If you want to say that managing a computer isn't managing I'd accept that stance in general, but the whole basis behind the idea of "everyone will become managers" is entirely premised on the idea of everyone managing computers, so that angle doesn't work within the context of this discussion. You cannot make that claim here.
I was talking about the programming profession. Their work is (was?) in establishing those details. The programming jobs as they were are going away, and are becoming more like management. I think we both agree there. What I don't agree with is saying that programming was always management. That, to me, is over-generalising what management is to the point where the word is becoming almost meaningless.
> What I don't agree with is saying that programming was always management.
I doubt anyone would, and that is why we even talked about the time when programmers weren't managers. Again, there really was a time in early computing where humans mechanically transcribed human-level descriptions into machine code. This is the origin of the term "coder". That was the job — encoding one representation into another. Unless you are trying to draw a distinction between programmers and coders? Most seem to consider them to be one and the same. But it wasn't long before we figured out how to make the computer the coder, so humans only had to worry about management of the coders.
> That, to me, is over-generalising what management is
The key difference in traditional use is that management is expected to manage people. As I mentioned before, I'd totally buy into you holding that same position. Except the idea of "everyone will be managers" hinges on the idea that they will manage computers, same as programmers have already been doing for decades. So that position doesn't work here. You cannot maintain that management is only management if it is people being managed, but then accept that in the future we will all be managers...
Straight up, there is no future where everyone will be managers of people. If everyone is the manager, what people would there be left to manage? It is impossible. Everyone becoming the manager is only possible if you include other things like computers. Which is fine, but we already manage computers. There is nothing new on that front. Computers were built to be managed. They are useless otherwise. Programming, for instance, is already always management (where you include computers as something able to be managed), even if there was a brief moment in time where it was more than that.
People management was always only a branch of management. However, never would I say that when coding, I'm "managing the computer". It's a weird thing to me. A compiler is a tool, not an unpredictable process I need to manage. I never used that lens in my professional work until LLMs. I'm talking 3 years ago, not 30.
I get that it's cute and philosophical to think everything is management and I'm one to generalize stuff as well ad-nausea. But when people don't find satisfaction in their work anymore and the excuse is "well, think of it as a promotion", that to me is taking the analogy too far because it suits the current trends.
But we're discussing now what it means to do management. We'll just have to agree to disagree and call it a day
> People management was always only a branch of management.
What other branch is there? You are either delegating or doing all the work yourself. Those who delegate become seen as managers, as that delegation requires managing the people (or, possibly things, depending on how you see that) that the work was delegated to. Those who receive the delegation and carry out their task individually are those considered to not be managers, but rather individual contributors.
> However, never would I say that when coding, I'm "managing the computer".
Why would you say anything while coding? I guess if you had some kind of voice-to-text system you might say something, but it wouldn't be "whee, I'm a manager now!!!!" — it'd be specific instructions directed at the computer so that it knows what task you are delegating to it.
> A compiler is a tool, not an unpredictable process I need to manage.
A compiler can be predictable if you perfectly describe the task you want it to carry out. However, that rarely happens in practice. Communicating your intent is always the hard part.
Which isn't much different than people. There are exceptions, but generally if you clearly define what you want them to do, they will execute it perfectly. Management of humans is all about coming back to make sure that what you described was correct and made sense to the receiving party. Which is the same thing you have to do with compilers.
On the face of it, product management and service management are the big duty donors.
Project managers and real executives manage a budget in dollars, not man days or tokens. Historically businesses are pretty reluctant to devolve that. I don’t think a big corp vibe coder is going to be able to pull out a company credit card and buy a marketing campaign any time soon.
So you have those other 2, managing product market fit and availability.
What is product management and service management? I tried asking the AI:
- A product manager (PM) guides a product from its initial idea to its final launch and beyond. They define the product vision, set the strategic roadmap, and work with engineering, design, marketing, and sales teams to build features that meet customer needs and support business goals.
- A service manager oversees a company's service department, leading staff, handling complex client complaints, and ensuring efficient daily operations. They act as the main link between customers and the business, tracking performance goals and managing budgets to keep service standards high.
But, unfortunately, we can't use those definitions because both of them are about managing people. "They [...] work with engineering, design, marketing, and sales teams to", "leading staff". Exactly what you are trying to say this type of management isn't.
What boggles your mind is not that people are falling for the genetic fallacy, but that others are calling them out for falling for it?
Does this stem from you believing that there is value in making logical errors, or is your angle more towards believing that nobody should waste their time interacting with someone who makes logical errors?
> I really think it was just one persons opinion that got published.
What alternative is there? Obviously very few of the ideas in the book were conceived of by Uncle Bob himself, but his editorial opinion is what chose which ideas to include. If that weren't the case, his name wouldn't be on the book.
Given what you said about Go, presumably that is Solod (https://solod.dev)